Post by finresearch on Feb 6, 2010 10:49:49 GMT -5
Hi to all Accutane Sufferers
I have news for you that may help bring this problem to the next level.
Accutane sufferers: You have soulmates!
I am a moderator at www.propeciahelp.com, a site for men which have experienced persistent side effects from finasteride (Propecia, Proscar, generics). Our men typically took these medications to combat hair loss. We also have a number of men which have taken dutasteride (Avodart) or saw palmetto based preparations instead of finasteride. Our member count is currently over 1500 and increasing daily.
The reason I am posting here is because we had a guy sign up at our site the other day who reported the exact same side effect profile like we have, from having taken Accutane. I since have been researching what Accutane sufferers had to say and checked out what has been published from a science/medical point of view. Today, I can say two things for sure:
[/li][/ul]
I am 99.9% sure that we are dealing with exactly the same problem and can mutually benefit from each other. Before going any further, let me give you a rundown of our list of symptoms (some, of course, apply only to men):
Frequent:
* Unexplainable, out-of-the-blue depression (from light to suicidal)
* Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
* Difficulty Concentrating
* Forgetfulness (can't recall names, places etc) / Losing Train of Thought
* Stumbling over Words / Getting Tongue Tied
* Slowdown of mental processes
* Lack of Motivation
* Anxiety / Panic Attacks
* Social Phobia
* Persistent or Unexplainable Fatigue
* Sleep Disturbances
* Loss of Libido/Sex Drive
* thingy Feels "disconnected" from head or body
* Erectile Dysfunction
* Loss of Morning / Spontaneous / Nocturnal Erections
* Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, curving, numbness, wrinkled)
* Watery Ejaculate
* Reduced Ejaculate
* Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
* Testicular Pain
* Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
* Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems / Bloating
* Changes in Fat Distribution / Weight Gain
* Gynecomastia (male breasts)
* Muscle wasting
* Muscle pain
* Muscle weakness
* Dry skin, dry eyes
* Prostate problems (difficulty to urinate or frequent urination)
* Various Hormones are out of whack
* No or bad reaction to androgen replacement (TRT, DHT)
Less frequent:
* Blurry vision/acuity decrease
* Tinnitus (ringing/high pitched sound in ears)
* Lowered body temperature / decreased metabolism
* Lack of blood flow to the thingy (cold thingy)
* Dry/Dark circles under eyes
* Elevated Liver Values (AST/ALT)
* Increased hair loss, thinning of hair (often accompanied by itchy scalp)
* Chest pain
* Joint pain
* Oversensitivity to light
* Burning sensation in hands (inner side) and fingers, sometimes in feet
Like with Accutane, we have unfortunately also had a number of suicides because of the severe depression that often comes with our “crash”. It is important to note that these side effects typically surface to the full extent around two weeks (on average) AFTER quitting finasteride/saw palmetto/dutasteride (sound familiar?). This time span can vary strongly anywhere from 2-3 days up to 6 months. The affected men are typically in their early twenties and often in very good health before taking these preparations.
Some of these symptoms can be attributed to any garden variety depression you may say. True, but you don’t get penile shrinkage, muscle wasting, complete penile numbness and severe gynecomastia from depression. So what is the common denominator between isotretinoin (Accutane), finasteride (Propecia, Proscar, etc.), dutasteride (Avodart) and saw palmetto? If you agree that “our” list of symptoms pretty well matches “your” list (I have since seen numerous confirmations that it does), then logically these four substances must have something in common that does this to us.
The answer is: ALL FOUR substances inhibit an enzyme called 5alpha-reductase (5AR). 5AR is what converts the hormone testosterone to the more potent 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
ALL FOUR MEDICATIONS SEEM TO CAUSE THE SAME PROBLEMS!
This cannot be a coincidence!!
This is Accutane's main mode of action, that almost everybody seems to be missing:
jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/4/1158
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1827343?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3
DHT plays a MAJOR role in hair loss and ACNE (also in women!). Women have male hormones as well, only in smaller quantities than men. Accutane works by reducing DHT through inhibition of 5AR (mainly type 1).
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM8-4SSR30H-9&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1985&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1196903230&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e487fc5e5e13c34a4ebb3675f8332bc3
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8252744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20043171?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Androgens play a central role in Acne AND Hair Loss. Both Accutane and hair loss medications work by reducing the androgen hormone DHT. The result is a common persistent side effect profile. I don't know how much clearer it can get.
Many men at www.propeciahelp.com have unsuccessfully tried supplementing and adjusting hormones together with some of the best specialists on this planet. Most have had no success with this; few guys had limited success at best. We are getting pretty close to establishing that the fact of inhibiting 5AR has somehow made us partially androgen resistant. How this can be and exactly what (other?) pathways may be involved is still a mystery – but we are working on it and getting science involved wherever and however we can. Incidentally, my personal focus is on exactly on this area. I have been working relentlessly on getting scientists on board and have been in contact with many of them at a global level. My areas of interest are molecular biology and genetics/epigenetics.
I am now very interested to see how Accutane sufferers will react to my post. If we can establish together that we are really talking about the same problem, this would give our “joint cause” an incredible boost in power. The bigger we can make this problem, the more relevant it will become. This will make it much easier to get the dozens/hundreds of millions of dollars funding that are needed to get the basic research in this area to the next level. Science is just starting to really realize that chemicals can have persistent side effects:
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-4WFPPMM-1&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F30%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1194155102&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=24dcac7a47354d1e76a8d7ee88858cc6
Look at the table of contents - did you see this??
[/color][/b][/quote]
This was published in November 2009!
It would be great if we could take a crack at this together.
Wishing everybody a soon recovery!
finresearch
I have news for you that may help bring this problem to the next level.
Accutane sufferers: You have soulmates!
I am a moderator at www.propeciahelp.com, a site for men which have experienced persistent side effects from finasteride (Propecia, Proscar, generics). Our men typically took these medications to combat hair loss. We also have a number of men which have taken dutasteride (Avodart) or saw palmetto based preparations instead of finasteride. Our member count is currently over 1500 and increasing daily.
The reason I am posting here is because we had a guy sign up at our site the other day who reported the exact same side effect profile like we have, from having taken Accutane. I since have been researching what Accutane sufferers had to say and checked out what has been published from a science/medical point of view. Today, I can say two things for sure:
- You people have exactly the same symptom profile like “we” do
- Science has so far miserably failed in understanding your problem.
[/li][/ul]
I am 99.9% sure that we are dealing with exactly the same problem and can mutually benefit from each other. Before going any further, let me give you a rundown of our list of symptoms (some, of course, apply only to men):
Frequent:
* Unexplainable, out-of-the-blue depression (from light to suicidal)
* Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
* Difficulty Concentrating
* Forgetfulness (can't recall names, places etc) / Losing Train of Thought
* Stumbling over Words / Getting Tongue Tied
* Slowdown of mental processes
* Lack of Motivation
* Anxiety / Panic Attacks
* Social Phobia
* Persistent or Unexplainable Fatigue
* Sleep Disturbances
* Loss of Libido/Sex Drive
* thingy Feels "disconnected" from head or body
* Erectile Dysfunction
* Loss of Morning / Spontaneous / Nocturnal Erections
* Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, curving, numbness, wrinkled)
* Watery Ejaculate
* Reduced Ejaculate
* Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
* Testicular Pain
* Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
* Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems / Bloating
* Changes in Fat Distribution / Weight Gain
* Gynecomastia (male breasts)
* Muscle wasting
* Muscle pain
* Muscle weakness
* Dry skin, dry eyes
* Prostate problems (difficulty to urinate or frequent urination)
* Various Hormones are out of whack
* No or bad reaction to androgen replacement (TRT, DHT)
Less frequent:
* Blurry vision/acuity decrease
* Tinnitus (ringing/high pitched sound in ears)
* Lowered body temperature / decreased metabolism
* Lack of blood flow to the thingy (cold thingy)
* Dry/Dark circles under eyes
* Elevated Liver Values (AST/ALT)
* Increased hair loss, thinning of hair (often accompanied by itchy scalp)
* Chest pain
* Joint pain
* Oversensitivity to light
* Burning sensation in hands (inner side) and fingers, sometimes in feet
Like with Accutane, we have unfortunately also had a number of suicides because of the severe depression that often comes with our “crash”. It is important to note that these side effects typically surface to the full extent around two weeks (on average) AFTER quitting finasteride/saw palmetto/dutasteride (sound familiar?). This time span can vary strongly anywhere from 2-3 days up to 6 months. The affected men are typically in their early twenties and often in very good health before taking these preparations.
Some of these symptoms can be attributed to any garden variety depression you may say. True, but you don’t get penile shrinkage, muscle wasting, complete penile numbness and severe gynecomastia from depression. So what is the common denominator between isotretinoin (Accutane), finasteride (Propecia, Proscar, etc.), dutasteride (Avodart) and saw palmetto? If you agree that “our” list of symptoms pretty well matches “your” list (I have since seen numerous confirmations that it does), then logically these four substances must have something in common that does this to us.
The answer is: ALL FOUR substances inhibit an enzyme called 5alpha-reductase (5AR). 5AR is what converts the hormone testosterone to the more potent 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT).
ALL FOUR MEDICATIONS SEEM TO CAUSE THE SAME PROBLEMS!
This cannot be a coincidence!!
This is Accutane's main mode of action, that almost everybody seems to be missing:
"In accordance with recent findings, no change in serum testosterone and significant decreases in 5 alpha- dihydrotestosterone (DHT), 5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol glucosiduronate, and androsterone glucosiduronate levels were observed after treatment."
jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/4/1158
"the ratios of the 5 alpha/5 beta metabolites (androsterone:aetiocholanolone and allo-THF:THF) were at the upper limit of the reference range and were lowered after treatment, suggesting that 5 alpha-reductase activity is sensitive to isotretinoin."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1827343?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3
DHT plays a MAJOR role in hair loss and ACNE (also in women!). Women have male hormones as well, only in smaller quantities than men. Accutane works by reducing DHT through inhibition of 5AR (mainly type 1).
"These results support the concept that target tissue androgen production plays an important hormonal role in the pathogenesis of acne in women and that plasma 3α-diol G may be the most sensitive marker of this process."
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WM8-4SSR30H-9&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1985&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1196903230&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e487fc5e5e13c34a4ebb3675f8332bc3
"Acne is one of the most common skin disorders. Androgens are known to play an important and possibly central role."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8252744?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
"This study suggests that DHT may not only be involved in sebum production but also in production of proinflammatory cytokines in acne."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20043171?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Androgens play a central role in Acne AND Hair Loss. Both Accutane and hair loss medications work by reducing the androgen hormone DHT. The result is a common persistent side effect profile. I don't know how much clearer it can get.
Many men at www.propeciahelp.com have unsuccessfully tried supplementing and adjusting hormones together with some of the best specialists on this planet. Most have had no success with this; few guys had limited success at best. We are getting pretty close to establishing that the fact of inhibiting 5AR has somehow made us partially androgen resistant. How this can be and exactly what (other?) pathways may be involved is still a mystery – but we are working on it and getting science involved wherever and however we can. Incidentally, my personal focus is on exactly on this area. I have been working relentlessly on getting scientists on board and have been in contact with many of them at a global level. My areas of interest are molecular biology and genetics/epigenetics.
I am now very interested to see how Accutane sufferers will react to my post. If we can establish together that we are really talking about the same problem, this would give our “joint cause” an incredible boost in power. The bigger we can make this problem, the more relevant it will become. This will make it much easier to get the dozens/hundreds of millions of dollars funding that are needed to get the basic research in this area to the next level. Science is just starting to really realize that chemicals can have persistent side effects:
...it is becoming increasingly apparent that chemicals can cause changes in gene expression that persist long after exposure has ceased. Here we present the hypothesis that commonly-used pharmaceutical drugs can cause such persistent epigenetic changes.
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-4WFPPMM-1&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F30%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1194155102&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=24dcac7a47354d1e76a8d7ee88858cc6
Look at the table of contents - did you see this??
Teratogens with epigenetic effects: thalidomide and isotretinoin
This was published in November 2009!
It would be great if we could take a crack at this together.
Wishing everybody a soon recovery!
finresearch